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Re: XML database enviroment using PostgreSQL

• To: Doug Rudder <drudder@d...>
• Subject: Re: XML database enviroment using PostgreSQL
• From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@b...>
• Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 10:10:22 -0400
• Cc: Elliotte Rusty Harold <elharo@m...>, xml-dev@l...
• Organization: Booz Allen Hamilton
• References: <7FEEE73A06F3D411A99D00508BD6341002713814@FACEXCH1>

<Quote>
I suppose we could apply the terms "publishing-oriented" and
"database-oriented", but again, people's view of what a database is may
conflict as well.
</Quote>

Ah - but one runs into trouble there as well (you'll no doubt here "but
my publications are stored in a database in my content management
system"). I would keep "publishing-oriented" - and make the terms
"publishing-oriented" and "exchange-oriented".

Kind Regards,
Joe Chiusano
Booz | Allen | Hamilton

Doug Rudder wrote:
> 
> Picking a term is always difficult because it often comes down to semantics
> (even the term "semantic" has different semantic value in different
> contexts).  Last December, Elliotte provided a brief definition of
> "narrative" and "record-like" which made a lot of sense and proved helpful
> in coordinating data-sharing with our sister company:
> 
> "All XML documents are documents. All XML documents contain data. I prefer
> to talk about
> "narrative" documents and "record-like" documents. In narrative documents
> order generally matters a great deal and mixed content is common. In record
> like documents order is of limited importance and mixed content is rare."
> 
> The company I work for publishes pharmaceutical reference products, both
> print and electronic.  Our sister company produces database applications for
> pharmacies.  Understanding the differences between the types of content
> structures we deal with helped define the problem space of integrating the
> two data sets and develop a solution.
> 
> I suppose we could apply the terms "publishing-oriented" and
> "database-oriented", but again, people's view of what a database is may
> conflict as well.
> ____________________________________
> Douglas Rudder     drudder@d...
> "If we've learned anything from the first 5 years of XML,
> it's that it can't succeed as a "big ball of mud" that
> pollutes document applications with data-specific concepts
> or data applications with document-specific concepts."
>   -- Mike Champion
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chiusano Joseph [mailto:chiusano_joseph@b...]
> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 8:25 AM
> To: Elliotte Rusty Harold
> Cc: Doug Rudder; xml-dev@l...
> Subject: Re:  XML database enviroment using PostgreSQL
> 
> Sure - I think a concrete example would better illustrate my point.
> Several years ago I worked on the prototype of a US Environmental
> Protection Agency initative called "Central Data Exchange (CDX[1])". CDX
> is the point of entry (a central hub) for environmental data submissions
> to EPA from entities such as governemnt agencies, states, localities,
> tribes, and laboratories. The submissions would be along the lines of
> water testing results, factory emmissions, etc. In this context,one may
> classify this XML information as "data-oriented"/"exchange-oriented",
> rather than "document-oriented"/"record-oriented".
> 
> However, because of various regulations, EPA was required to archive the
> submissions not only as they were received - but in every stage of their
> life cycle (i.e. whatever processing was applied to the data, such as
> conversion from XML to flat-file format). These archives - a.k.a
> "records" - were required to be retained for certain number of years (I
> *believe* 25 years), for multiple reasons among which was to allow them
> to be used as evidence in litigation if necessary.
> 
> So in summary, this "data-oriented"/"exchange-oriented" XML was also
> considered to be "record-oriented".
> 
> Kind Regards,
> Joe Chiusano
> Booz | Allen | Hamilton
> 
> [1] http://www.epa.gov/cdx/
> 
> Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote:
> >
> > At 3:28 PM -0400 8/14/03, Chiusano Joseph wrote:
> > >Thinking more about the term "record-like" for what is commonly called
> > >"data-oriented" XML: One may run into some disagreement with the notion
> > >that "document-oriented" (or narrative) XML does not involve records (I
> > >am intentionally speaking very generally here). For example, given the
> > >recent Sarbanes-Oxley Act here in the U.S., every "type" of XML is
> > >expected to be record-oriented.
> > >
> >
> > Could you elaborate on that point? That doesn't seem at all
> > self-evident to me. I'm not sure what you mean.
> > --
> >
> >    Elliotte Rusty Harold
> >    elharo@m...
> >    Processing XML with Java (Addison-Wesley, 2002)
> >    http://www.cafeconleche.org/books/xmljava
> >    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0201771861/cafeaulaitA
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> > The list archives are at http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/
> >
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  • RE: XML database enviroment using PostgreSQL
    • From: Doug Rudder <drudder@d...>

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