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Re: SOAP patented

• To: "Jeff Lowery" <jlowery@s...>, "Amelia A Lewis" <amyzing@t...>
• Subject: Re: SOAP patented
• From: "Dave Winer" <dave@u...>
• Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 15:52:43 -0700
• Cc: "Xml-Dev \(E-mail\)" <xml-dev@l...>
• References: <D60D8F448216D611A21A00508B62B5BC5D85@e...> <20020927201142.GA5582@t...>

> Not to rain on the parade, but reading the application, this appears to be
a
> reuse of the name (Simple Object Access Protocol) and the original purpose
> (defeating the security offered by firewalls), but is not actually at all
> the same thing that is represented by SOAP 1.1 or the current XML Protocol
> Work.

I can confirm this.

The SOAP they're talking about here is not the SOAP we're using in the XML
world.

It's really confusing, the new SOAP is a re-use of something that died
inside Microsoft. They liked the name, and wanted to use it for something
important.

Another clue is the date on the submission, in November 1997. Work on SOAP,
as XML-over-HTTP, the protocol in use today, didn't start until March 1998.

Further, before we announced SOAP, I asked Microsoft if they had filed a
patent on it, and they said they had not. This was a material concern for
us. We didn't want to endorse something that Microsoft had patented. Another
large software company told us they were sure that Microsoft *had* filed a
patent. I suppose we have just a few more months to find out for sure one
way or the other.

Dave


----- Original Message -----
From: "Amelia A Lewis" <amyzing@t...>
To: "Jeff Lowery" <jlowery@s...>
Cc: "Xml-Dev (E-mail)" <xml-dev@l...>
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 1:11 PM
Subject: Re:  SOAP patented


> On Fri, Sep 27, 2002 at 12:40:45PM -0700, Jeff Lowery wrote:
> >A little more homework:
> >
> >from http://www.w3.org/Submission/2000/05/ :
> >
> >"Microsoft further agrees that, upon adoption of this contribution as a
> >Standard, Microsoft will grant to any party a royalty-free license on
other
> >reasonable and non-discriminatory terms under applicable Microsoft
> >intellectual property rights to implement and use the technology proposed
in
> >this contribution in products that comply with the Standard but only for
the
> >purpose of complying with the Standard. Microsoft expressly reserves all
> >other rights it may have in the material and subject matter of this
> >contribution. The licensing commitments made hereunder do not include any
> >license for implementation of other published specifications developed
> >elsewhere but referred to in this contribution."
>
> Not to rain on the parade, but reading the application, this appears to be
a
> reuse of the name (Simple Object Access Protocol) and the original purpose
> (defeating the security offered by firewalls), but is not actually at all
> the same thing that is represented by SOAP 1.1 or the current XML Protocol
> Work.
>
> Specific differences: data is described as binary, in multipart mime.  The
> contents are not at all similar to the XML SOAP envelope.  Instantiation
is
> described as COM (ActiveX) and JScript, with an aside that "those skilled
in
> the art" will see what else is obviously covered.  So ... maybe it's a
> patent on SOAP for RPC within .NET, but I doubt even that much.  It
doesn't
> look like it would cover most SOAP implementations, because they mostly
> don't use data marshalled as described, or operate as described.
>
> On the other hand, I suppose it could be used as a stick to beat
competitors
> with.  Possibly the application went in before "SOAP" became a buzzword?
> The authors aren't the MS folks who are involved in W3C/XMLP/WS work, so
far
> as I know.
>
> Amy!
> --
> Amelia A. Lewis       amyzing@t...      alicorn@m...
> The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and three hundred
> sixty-two admonishments to heterosexuals.  That doesn't mean that God
> doesn't love heterosexuals.  It's just that they need more supervision.
>
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• References:
  • RE: SOAP patented
    • From: Jeff Lowery <jlowery@s...>
  • Re: SOAP patented
    • From: amyzing@t... (Amelia A Lewis)

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