[XML-DEV Mailing List Archive Home] [By Thread] [By Date] [Recent Entries] [Reply To This Message] RE: XML, hypertext
Not oddly, some of the first Hytime tutorials that Neill Kipp and Steve Newcomb presented (and which I have old paper copies of) took up exactly the problem of the notation: that is, when one is addressing into a film or audio file, one is not addressing into a markup so markup based addressing even infoset is not sufficient. The structures aren't the same. Each notational system needs its own infoset and by some magic, these should all be resolvable into a more abstract descriptive information set, which is what a grove is as I understand it: nodes and properties, you get to name the names. It isn't that complex (except the names chosen for the grove sets themselves); it is... abstract. Hytime got lost in ... time. I have some measure of the fault there. We were all musicians and time means a lot to us. :-) The speed of light as a constant separates the universe into gulfs of information where evolution depends not only on temporal proximity to the origin (the big bang) but the limits on interactions (exchanges of taxons) among non-near neighbors. Intelligence only emerges in a limited band of that space/time coordinate set. The reason we haven't heard from the neighbors (alien plots not withstanding) is that there are no "ancient advanced civilazations". We are all in about the same phase of our intellectual evolution and the universe as a whole has not reached the point of enabling the locals to understand how to fold space and time to resolve the distances. We aren't mature and we aren't capable. But we will be. What we will use for money when we are will be fascinating to see. len -----Original Message----- From: Didier PH Martin [mailto:martind@n...] Len said: We come back to groves for the same reasons the original group ended up there. Until one has a neutral means to describe properties of nodes in a sharable descriptive language, it is tough to decide when we are talking about the same "type" of thing being addressed from multiple contexts. Didier replies: Yes indeed this is needed by any "software" interpreter. Moreover, by experience, I discovered that Grove plans able to go beyond the document model and move up (or down depending on the perspective) to the semantic level brings more productivity and more readable code. For instance, If, from a marked document I want to link to a particular frame contained in a movie (1) the interpreter needs to resolve the impedance mismatch between the types. On the other hand I may rely on an addressing schema and let an other interpreter resolve the issue. But in the last case, the movie object interpreter will need to present the same addressing model (i.e. the same name space convention). For instance to present a tree and a addressing scheme like Xpath (i.e. a hierarchical name space). Is something like Xpath sufficient to do that? I Don't know but what I remember is that people got rebuffed by the complexity of function based addressing ( a la lisp) as proposed by hytime (and also covered in DSSSL specs). In any cases, we will have to deal with different document types and I am not talking here of markup document type but more of different entities like HTML document vs. video or sound documents. The main problem the web will have to face during this decade is to be able to link text based documents to multimedia document. So to speak, to have a link contained in a document to point to a particular movie scene or a particular song part. I guess the community has lost sight of the end goal and entered in decadent Byzantine fights :-). I just hope Simon's effort will bring back some common sense and help prepare the future and most of all, that the group will use the lessons learned from the past. (1) I know for several it is science fiction but, as you know, some try to do that and documents are not all based on markup
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