[XML-DEV Mailing List Archive Home] [By Thread] [By Date] [Recent Entries] [Reply To This Message] Re: Infoset as subset of useful
[Simon St. Laurent:] > To some extent, I find the Infoset to be an odd > imposition of expectations from SGML which were never > fully expressed in the XML 1.0 specification, which > itself conflates lexical expression with processing > expectations. > Given that the Infoset already allows applications to > be compliant by expressing how they do or don't > implement portions of the Infoset - a refrigerator > can be compliant, with a Post-It note expressing that > it needs none of the Infoset for proper > implementation[1] - it seems like a wasted > opportunity for the Infoset to be written only as a > subset of XML's lexical potential. > Starting with the complete set - and then allowing > developers to specify which parts they do or don't > care about, perhaps with guidance from the Infoset > spec - seems like a much wiser idea. > I can't say I've found any use for the Infoset as > currently written, except as a contributor of such > fine terms as "element information item" which litter > the landscape of XML verbiage. And yes, I'd strongly > suggest that the W3C discard the Infoset as presently > written and start again, perhaps from XSet[2], or > drop the project entirely. The XPath model seems > quite popular if not without its own flaws. I still believe in the value of the Infoset work. I would very much like to see a machine-processable formal expression of the Infoset adopted as part of the Infoset Recommendation. I believe that it would be very appropriate and very useful to use the ISO "Property Set" formalism for this purpose. All of Simon's concerns and complaints can be successfully and favorably resolved in a property set for XML, based on the Infoset, and expressed (like all property sets for all notations) in XML. As I recall, the reason we needed the Infoset was to provide a firm basis for XML addressing. For example, it is necessary to eliminate the ambiguities in the DOM spec that have made it impossible to guarantee that, given the same XML document, the same calls to different DOM implementations will always return the same information. In other words, we need a firm answer to the question, "What counts as a node?" in all contexts and circumstances. The need for reliable addressing has not diminished; quite the contrary, in fact. The grove paradigm meets Simon's above-implied requirements of: * distinguishing lexical expression from processing expectation, * modularity, with users able to choose to use and/or ignore modules, * minimality, with foundational concepts and terminology clearly distinguished from concepts and terms that are coined for specific semantics (the grove paradigm is, among other things, a toolkit for defining such concepts and terms), and * many other real-world requirements, too, including all the rigor, formality, and machine-readability that is needed to support direct translation of grove schemas (called "property sets") into the relevant aspects of real implementations. We need information to be maintainably addressable. The grove paradigm is the internationally standard enabler of universal and maintainable addressability for all kinds of information, including but not limited to information that happens to be expressed in XML. Only the grove paradigm covers the territory. Someday, the Web community will have to embrace the grove paradigm, although perhaps under another name. The name is not important. Reliable addressing, however, is vital now, and it will always be vital. For those who are interested in learning more, I'm still recommending Paul Prescod's Web-oriented introduction, which (I just checked) is still at http://www.prescod.net/groves/shorttut/ -Steve -- Steven R. Newcomb, Consultant srn@c... voice: +1 972 359 8160 fax: +1 972 359 0270 1527 Northaven Drive Allen, Texas 75002-1648 USA
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