[XML-DEV Mailing List Archive Home] [By Thread] [By Date] [Recent Entries] [Reply To This Message] RE: XSL and the semantic web
I think the point was that <H3>Joe</H3> has lost the fact that 'Joe' was a name (<name>Joe</name>), and similarly with the phone number. It is not arguing that the employeeness or status is being requested (elements not rendered) - just the original element identification of those elements which are presented. It comes down to a difference between CSS and XSL(FO): FO's force you to reconstruct your elements as formatting objects which lose all contextual information from the original (both nesting and element identification). In this way it is like translating to HTML (which was the example). If I wanted to search for the name 'Joe' or the phone number I could get as many false hits as I do with HTML sites - nothing identifies a name or phone number. CSS on the other hand would have kept the employee and phone elements and just added the attributes to describe the 1st as a heading level 3 and the second as a paragraph. Why should seeing information in a formatted form destroy its organization? If it were presented as a form or table I could see writing HTML examiners that look for labels for cells and headings for rows/columns just to get back the original element names. Why does information have to be destroyed for presentation? It is not required (CSS doesn't do it). I haven't seen some groundswell of 'Please let me destroy the organization I worked so hard to put on this data' Looks to me like grasping at straws to justify FO model. Marc B McDonald Principal Software Scientist Design Intelligence, Inc www.design-intelligence.com <http://www.design-intelligence.com> ---------- From: David Brownell [SMTP:david-b@p...] Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 12:30 PM To: Marcelo Cantos Cc: xml-dev@i... Subject: Re: XSL and the semantic web Marcelo Cantos wrote: > > > > If the semantic content is a "web" then anything short of looking at > > > the whole web at once (yeah, right!) is looking through a "firewall". > > ... the following two transformations: > > <employee status="active"> > <name>Joe</name> > <phone>555-12345</phone> > </employee> > > <H3>Joe</H3> > <P>Phone: 555-12345</P> > > Are of a fundamentally different character. It is not a simply case > of having more or less information. In the second example, even the > structure of the information you are entitled to (and this from the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > owner's viewpoint) has been lost, and gratuitously so. And there we catch the essence of a philosophical divide, I think! (Not the one about not counting structure as information.) On what grounds can you claim "you" are "entitled" to such information? Have you any legal "need to know"? Have you entered into an enforceable contract, with penalty clauses if you misuse that information (e.g. sell it to a competitor or other unauthorized entity)? Who are "you", and why should your interest trump the "owner's" interest in reducing the risks inherent in sharing information with you? As I said earlier: > > Turning data into presentation-only data is just another transform, in > > any case, for all that it's a bit more apparent how much was removed. > > Clients don't generally have any "right" to see that extra data. I can accept that some folk don't like the FO part of XSL. What I can't accept is justifying such a dislike on legal grounds, when in fact when you bring law into it you're more likely to find reasons for "firewalling" data than otherwise. - Dave xml-dev: A list for W3C XML Developers. To post, mailto:xml-dev@i... Archived as: http://www.lists.ic.ac.uk/hypermail/xml-dev/ and on CD-ROM/ISBN 981-02-3594-1 To (un)subscribe, mailto:majordomo@i... the following message; (un)subscribe xml-dev To subscribe to the digests, mailto:majordomo@i... the following message; subscribe xml-dev-digest List coordinator, Henry Rzepa (mailto:rzepa@i...) xml-dev: A list for W3C XML Developers. To post, mailto:xml-dev@i... Archived as: http://www.lists.ic.ac.uk/hypermail/xml-dev/ and on CD-ROM/ISBN 981-02-3594-1 To (un)subscribe, mailto:majordomo@i... the following message; (un)subscribe xml-dev To subscribe to the digests, mailto:majordomo@i... the following message; subscribe xml-dev-digest List coordinator, Henry Rzepa (mailto:rzepa@i...)
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